Fitness guru: Scott Sanchez - An interview with the master maker
Scott Sanchez himself says he is an expert on world champions. In an interview with slalom world champion Maciek Rutkowski, the legendary coach shares his secret recipes and reveals what is much more important for success than just training.
I'd ask you how you're doing, but I saw on Instagram that you're still doing squats with 150 kilos of weight at over 60, so I guess it's all good.
Yes, I have to keep up with the boys somehow (laughs).
Is it important to you that you manage the tasks for the boys yourself?
Oh yes, except for the giant waves of course!
I don't even know where to start, there's so much to tell you. You were a successful skier and twice competed for Bolivia at the Olympic Games. How did you get into windsurfing?
After the 1984 Olympic Games in Sarajevo, I was offered the opportunity to help set up a ski academy. So I ended my career, although I could have stayed with it a little longer. I had seen windsurfers before and thought it would be fun. When there was a World Cup in San Francisco, I watched it and thought: That's it! Shortly afterwards, I met my wife, who I've been married to for almost 37 years now (Rhonda Smith-Sanchez, editor's note). She was already a world champion at the time and had seen the sport develop from a windsurfing class to a professional circus. That's how I came into contact with the sport.
How did that compare with skiing back then?
At the regattas, it was quite structured and professional. But in the months and days before, during the preparation, nobody trained, they just surfed. I'm sure everyone did a few pull-ups or something, but I just saw so many opportunities to make great progress, which would then also lead to an improvement on the water. Often finals are won in sub-optimal conditions, at the end of the day when the waves get worse or in the slalom when it gets gusty. Many wouldn't go out in such conditions because they say it's too small, it's too weak or something. That's where we came in.
So your wife was your first customer?
Yes, the guinea pig (laughs). I remember a contest in Hood River. Normally you'd sail a 5.7 there, but just before the regatta it was blowing for a 3.5. So I told her to test her fins and sails. At one point she had a bad exit, when she came in her face was all swollen and she shouted: "Don't send me out there again!" She was really angry. I then said: "You have to go out again, you have to test that fin! If it's that windy, you need to know it." She barely managed 300 metres before the spinout came. When she came back, I said: "Good thing we tested it, now we know it doesn't work!" The next day it was again suitable for 5.0 or 5.7, and she won! There were very few people back then who prepared as professionally as we did.
I have to keep up with the boys somehow - except in the giant waves"
Windsurfing is more complex than many other sports and is also dependent on the weather. Is it more difficult to give the whole thing a structure?
I don't think that has anything to do with it. I started the "Gorge Junior Team" in the late eighties, which included Micah Buzianis, Chris Wyman and a few others. It only ran for eight or twelve weeks in the summer because that was the only time I had and I was otherwise training the national ski team. We had Anders Bringdal as a guest and I said, Anders, don't you want to give them a few tips? And then it was: "No goals, just go out and have fun!" For some people that works, there's no right and wrong, you just have to find out what's best for you. Some needed to be pushed, some needed to be managed, some needed lots of feedback, some needed me to teach them how to approach a competition.
So there is no one approach to getting the best out of every athlete. Micah and I have known each other for 36 years. It went from a dictatorship to a training relationship to a management relationship to a real partnership. And I have the same relationship with Kai Lenny, I've been working with him since he was eleven. That's a long time. As the coach, as a counterpart, I have to allow the athlete to make mistakes sometimes.
There are also those who need to be reminded to have fun and not overdo the work.
It doesn't matter what motivates you, whether you want to get on the cover of a magazine or beat your mate. It doesn't matter to me, but you have to tell me what motivates you. There are athletes who are very altruistic and just want to have a perfect run. Others say: "Forget that, I just want to win!" I don't care, but I need to know that in order to be able to add the right wood. Our job as coaches is to be a mirror for the athlete.
It sounds like it has to be the complete package, but that it starts with the mental part. You are mainly known as a coach for strength and physical preparation, but you can't have one without the other, can you?
To be honest, I don't have a certificate in any of these areas. But what I do have are world champions. I'm not a personal strength coach, I'm not a nutritionist, I'm not physiologically trained, I'm not a psychologist, but I have my fingers in all of these pies. At the end of the day, what matters to me is the result, and that's what I enjoy.
You mentioned Micah Buzianis and the Gorge Junior Team. Who was pushing who? Did Micah say, I see the results, let's do this full time, or did you tell him, you have huge potential, let's work together permanently?
Let me go back a little further. We met at a small lake near Salt Lake City. When the "Gorge Junior Team" came about, he was part of it, and one day he asked me if I would do a training camp with him. Shortly afterwards he had a good result at the World Cup in Almanarre, and from then on things took off. So the story is that Micah asked me. Micah was like a tractor, an incredible worker. He really blossomed with the planning and structure. Others wanted to escape.
So you work with Micah, he's successful, and then you make a full-time job out of it. You surf yourself, so it's probably a bit easier to deconstruct the whole thing biomechanically. What are the movements, what does the rider need? So you looked at all the details and what did you come up with?
If you have two riders with exactly the same physical requirements, but one is ten per cent stronger and has more agility, then he will always have more opportunities to be fast. That is a fact that I have always recognised. He can take more risks, he can get out of tricky situations faster, he can control the rail better and stay on course, he can react better to impending spin-outs and so on.
Yes, but you never have drivers with the same dimensions, with the same style...
Exactly, and that's why you need a training partner with whom you can test things, just ride straight ahead and try out different styles and equipment. For Micah that was Jimmy Diaz, they trained together a lot. That's a very humble position, to put your pride and ego aside and just ride consistently. A lot of Micah's success can be attributed to what he did with Jimmy.
Did you immediately think that a team would be more successful than an individual athlete?
In racing, yes, you simply had to work together. There was a Pryde team, a Gaastra team and so on, but in wave riding it was completely different, it was much more individualised. I remember seeing Francisco Goya and thinking that there was a lot of raw potential. That's probably the one where my work was most directly visible, whose results suddenly went through the roof when he got some structure and some coaching.
So how did you turn him into the Wave World Champion in such a short time?
He gained the most in terms of self-confidence. That was actually everything. I did a training session with him specifically for the competitions: we went to Waiehu, it was bad, small onshore waves, and I said: "You're in Europe now and we're training for the events. Close your eyes and I'll paint you a picture: We're on Sylt, all the sponsors have big expectations, and your opponents are asking why is this guy even here, he's a total idiot. You're riding against Nik Baker now, you know what Nik does, how he rides and what you have to do to beat him."
Francisco Goya came back, threw his material on the beach, I laughed and he started crying"
He then drove out and it was a total disaster. I would have done better myself. He came back, threw his equipment on the beach, I laughed and he started crying. I said: "Your imagination is so powerful! We're not on Sylt, Nik isn't here, nothing! But I put it in your head, you soaked it up like a sponge and lived through the scenario. All I have to do is write you the script and you'll be the world champion!
Another time we were down there and I said, bring a 6-metre sail and a series board. I sent him out with it and let him jump front loops. I said: If you jump that many front loops at this spot, you'll be doing it like an assembly line in Pozo. And the contrast between this big ship and the boards he was used to and this spinnaker-type sail was stark. Everything you do after that will be a walk in the park.
From that morning in Waiehu to the World Championship title, was that in one year?
No, I think he was third that year and then won the year after. I think the biggest compliment for Francisco came from Björn: "We could have had ten wave events that year and you would still have won!" We only had three, which I think were Pozo, Sylt and Ireland. Ireland was phenomenal, we had practised swapping equipment in the middle of the heat. I said: "You have to go out and jump a perfect double loop with the material that's best for it and then switch to the stuff for wave riding." He did it like clockwork, it was like a pit stop in Formula 1. We had rigged every sail size two or three times because something always breaks and we wanted to be prepared for it.
How often do you hear from the waveriders or even Kai when you give them tips, "What do you know?"
Never before. If someone said that, they did it secretly (laughs).
Was there ever a danger that someone might lose interest in sport? I mean, we do it all because we love the sport, not because we want to become millionaires. You tell the guys that you have to train in twelve knots of onshore chaos and rain.
Not everything is like Hookipa, perfect weather, parking for your car, a few girls on the beach. It's like a fairytale here, but it's not like that in Europe. You come to Pozo and you have sand everywhere, even between your teeth, it's hard. And to get used to it, you have to get out of your comfort zone. We have a team spirit to show: You can do it! And to spur each other on. And then it's also fun!
Let's say you've planned to practise heat planning with the wave riders or the slalom riders are supposed to test their equipment, but the conditions just aren't right. Do you then improvise and change the plan?
I always have a plan, but I also have no problem changing the plan. When the boys come in, I know in three seconds what I can do today. That's how well I know them! I don't even have to ask them how they feel or what their bodies are doing. There have been times when it's been completely flat and I've said we'll go to the schoolyard and skate. We try to be more dynamic, sometimes goofy, sometimes regular. Then we create lots of contrasts, make things ten times more difficult than they actually are. If you do it normally again afterwards, it's easy!
Chat a bit out of the sewing box: Who worked the hardest?
It depends on how you define hard work, but I'd say Micah was the most consistent, but Francisco was close. But in all fairness, I've also worked with them the longest. But I also have to emphasise Kai, because he's been with me since he was eleven, and every year we've done a bit more and used his talent more intensively. But others were also able to work very hard, Robby Swift even lived with us once.
Sewing box, part two: Who was the laziest?
(laughs). I can say this much: Levi Siver liked to sleep. He liked life at a different pace. But that's the way he was! But I have to say that he absolutely found his way. If you look at the later years and what he did with his career: The guy is incredible! I wouldn't say he was the laziest, that's kind of an accusation, he just liked it a bit slower. That's when he was at his best!
Levi Siver liked to sleep. He liked living at a different pace. That's just the way he was. But I have to say, he found his way"
You've been working with Kai Lenny forever, he does so many sports. How big a part do you play? If he focusses on something else, the training has to adapt, so a compromise has to be made, right?
I don't see it as a compromise, I look at where the priority needs to be. This year was unique because of Covid, for the first time in our partnership we had a time when we were able to build foundations. We have achieved a significant improvement in his health and energy levels. Otherwise, he always had to go here or there for his sponsors. My responsibility is to control his reserves. It's very challenging to make great progress, but very easy to do damage.
The strength and basic training is only 25 per cent of what I do. I don't have $400,000 equipment, we have a bit of iron, balance boards and so on, but that's only a small part. It's really about the dialogue, the resilience and the relationship and the confidence that I touch the things that the athletes feel give them more confidence.
Yes, all the travelling. How can you reconcile that with a training plan?
Of course you have a plan, and if you arrive and can't go to your room yet, then the world won't fall apart. Leave your stuff in the car, put the seat down and take a nap and be happy with that. If you make yourself hostage to your planning and see things like this negatively, then it clouds your vision. Those who have fun and enjoy it instead of being thrown off balance are the ones who have the clearest view. The intensity has to be there and you have to ramp it up and take it down from time to time so that you can bring the same intensity back afterwards.
The best person I ever worked with who was able to just switch the intensity on and off and be ready at any time was Nik Baker. He was all in, but as soon as the heat was cancelled, he was joking around and having a good time. If it went ahead, then he was fully focussed again. If you keep the intensity up all the time, it can be very tiring. Let's say there's a big wave contest in Peahi and there are no sets. If you're in the water or on a jet ski and you stay fully focussed the whole time, you'll wear yourself out. You need a mental routine that allows you to recharge.
Were there athletes who weren't particularly good in training but then really turned up the heat in the contest? Perhaps because they were simply consistent and the others slacked off?
Two people come to mind, one is the ski racer Julia Mancuso. She won Olympic medals, but no national championships. She grew with her tasks. And then I think there are few people who like competition as much as Kai. He loves to compete. He tries to train that, to be able to perform to the point. If I judge it by who worked the hardest or something, then that's not really fair, because at the end of the day it's the result that counts. I don't care how you train. If it's what's best for you, then I have to respect that and support it.
But it sounds like you associate this with a mental approach rather than a physical improvement, through training or diet.
Yes, 100 per cent! If you have the desire and the tenacity to get through a dry spell, then you can still have your big breakthrough in your older years. Sometimes my athletes just need to change things, team up with other people, find a new girlfriend or boyfriend, find a new sponsor, something to rekindle the fire. Someone who believes in them or motivates them. They just didn't push the right buttons, and then they got frustrated.
Then I say: change your thought patterns, take a different perspective. What do you want to change? If you carry on as before, you will get the same as before. And I believe that athletes' careers have become much longer thanks to science, nutritional science and better management. If you look at the life of a professional athlete, 40 years ago it was still the case that people stopped at 25. The experience hadn't even started yet. An athlete's life now goes well into their 40s!
Why has the MPG become smaller and smaller? Is it only due to the economic environment or is it also because what you do was revolutionary 20 years ago, but is now much more widespread?
It was a time when the situation in the industry had a major impact. There was a conglomerate that came on the scene and bought up seven major brands (Jacobs, editor's note). All salaries were reduced, the drivers no longer had the money and support they had before and could no longer do it. I then had to find a way to earn my money too, with fewer resources and fewer riders.
I also had a family to support, I had financial commitments at the time that I had made in order to make MPG possible. We had a big house on the beach, everyone lived nearby, and you have to be able to afford that. But as you can see, it's all still there and I still have athletes from everywhere here with me: it's still my passion, I love coaching! Sebastian Vettel has already trained with me, he came a few years ago when he was at Red Bull. We did a lot of hikes and runs, it was a great time. He's a great guy with a great sense of humour.
Have you found a common denominator among all world champions? Across all disciplines, whether it's Vettel or skiers or windsurfers, a common denominator that all champions have?
An insatiable hunger. They simply love what they do! Whether it's driving a car fast, standing on the football pitch or doing a bottom turn that nobody else does, a super-fast slalom start. This passion inspires them, they motivate themselves!
You have trained skiers, tennis players, NFL and NBA stars. Where do windsurfers stand in terms of fitness, as far as you can measure it?
Every sport has its own special requirements. In slalom, you don't necessarily have to be able to do the splits. If you slip out of the strap during the spinout, it will certainly help, but it's not necessary. In big wave tow-in surfing, you need speed to balance the G-forces in the bottom turn. Racers need stability and body tension. If you look at the physique of these guys, they don't look like strength athletes, they don't have mountains of muscle, but rather a body like Polakov - a bit puny legs, but wiry.
Everyone has their own needs, so I don't compare. If you're a happy person, then it becomes a great foundation. If you're not happy, then it becomes very difficult! And the surfer who finds happiness in the rain and goes out on a three-metre shorebreak will go far in life. You just have to change your perspective.
What is your best fitness tip for a hobby windsurfer with a desk job?
You need to have strength in your forearm! Because forearm power is what makes it fun. When you're coming out of the jibe, not gliding, you need to pump, or when you're a bit overpowered. The forearms are usually the first thing to get tired. If you only go out at the weekend, you won't be able to have as much fun when they run out of energy. Maybe you don't have the right sail, it's too big or too small, you don't want to come in because you don't have that much time, so you have to flex your muscles, and that's where you need strength in your forearms first and foremost!
This interview first appeared in surf 7/2021
